Standards-9985

 

Standards-9985

Conservation of Egyptology treasures

Still n Video Cataloging

In order to create a uniform digital catalog, specific information belongs in specific fields.

Because of human error or neglect chaos will be involved.

The way to keep things in sequence is a data entry system.

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Explanation of standard fields for every entry.

Hieroglyph-Data-Entry

Title

: Every artifact must be given a standard title. This must be used because the title will also become part of the file name. This will allow a researcher to kick out a specific record or when doing a word search, the title of every file that has that key word will be displayed.

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Original Location

: This is where the artifact was first discovered. If it is some vague location (like Luxor), then that would raise a red flag. If it is given a specific location, then the researcher can compare the artifact with the given site where it was found.

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Present Location

(if moved): If the artifact has been moved to some museum, then the researcher can search that museum to obtain an image of it. I get gobs of images from web sites and the fact is, there is no way for me to tell any one this is what the actual piece looks like. When I use images, I crop them, add pics or info, stretch detail, sharpen..

As images of artifacts are put to use, odds are you are not seeing what the original piece actually looks like.

An actual researcher who wanted to document their work, would want to go to the horses mouth... a museum where it is held.

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Language

: Hieroglyph, Cuneform, Greek, Latin

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Pages

: (default 1) If it is a stela, wall painting .. the default is 1. If it is on papyrus, it could be multiple pages. This reference is necessary for line numbering.

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Permit Records

(if moved out of Egypt). Because fakes and forgeries are a mult-million dollar business, one check would be the documentation allowing a person to remove an artifact from Egypt. If there is no documentation, a red flag ... if there is documentation of a permit, the permit will give a full description of the piece that was removed from Egypt.

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Link to full image

: Any image transcribed should have photographs of the original image.

Comparing a photograph with a sketch, would allow the researcher to give evidence the sketch is legitimate.

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Link to transcription

: Because translation is NOT an exact science, there may be multiple translation of the same hieroglyph. Those who follow, will probably make notes as to why they chose a different translation.

The scholar could read the reasoning and decide for themselves, which pumpkin they are going to buy.

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Information about the person who discovered this artifact

: This would give insight about the creditability of the person said to have discovered the particular piece.

I often read such things as "a woman found it" ... a boy found it ... an adventurer found it.

Many times these people are never seen. It is kind of like a man caught with a gun and telling the cops, "a guy in the bar sold it to me"

"An adventurer" found it? Tom Sawyer, a tourist/rug salesman found it on the streets on his vacation to Egypt?

What you know or do not know about the person said to have found the piece is a measurement of it's creditability.

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When was it found

: This information will be useful in cross checking the piece and documentation.

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As the grade school story went, a guy caught a guy caught a leprechaun and made him promise to tie a ribbon around the tree where his gold was buried.

The leprechaun agreed and the next day the guy saw a ribbon tied around every tree in the woods.

In some tombs there are hundreds of different hieroglyphic text about different things, in different rooms and different walls.

Nail down the specific location

:

Title of the specific hieroglyph

Name of the tomb

Which room

Which wall

123 inches from the right corner

83 inches from the bottom

Every square inch of a tomb should be photographed. Before going to a tomb, a diagram of the tomb should be created. Before starting to photograph a wall, a picture of the diagram ... the wall you are about to photograph should be shot, then a systematic recording of that wall.

At night after the tourist are going, would be perfect to set up ladders and lighting to do the job right. Most tombs could be completely video taped in less than a week.

By video taping walls future generations could see that image in relation to other hieroglyphic information around it.

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Following the video taping crew, a still image crew would take high resolutions of each segment (Noting it's location with in the structure).

Being exposed to the elements, in time the images and hieroglyphics will vanish.

Before it happens is the time to document these treasures for the future.

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ARTIST WELCOME ... BUT

Because they can examine the composition of the paint, scientist can project the color temperature when it was originally painted

Any section that is selected for reproduction should be created with the appropriate colors.. BUT before it would be allowed to be entered in the catalogue, an image of the original section would be placed above.

This is the appearance of the piece when photographed

This is what trained artist believe it looked at when painted.

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These guys are involved in a very important work

http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/projects/epi/

If you have some kind of special talent, you might see what you could do.

For further information on contributions to the work of the Survey, contact the Development Office at (773) 702-9513 or oi-membership@uchicago.edu

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There must be hundreds of tombs or outside images/hieroglyphics that are over looked.

Adopt a site the big boys have no interest in ... Egyptian school teacher? What a great project for your class.

As for those reading the thoughts on hieroglyphics, I will integrate similar fields into the descriptions.

zendz

Standards-9986

 

Standards-9986

Transcribing Help Screen

There are lots of hieroglyphic programs on the net, but they do not create a universal code and a bunch of them are novelty programs.. writing your name or a letter to some one.

The only use I am interested is transcribing what the ancient Egyptians wrote into a digital file available to all researchers.

I doubt that many people would learn the numbers of all glyphs. It would help but is not necessary.

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(You have a utility similar to this one if you have word. It lets you place special characters in your text)

Other than memorizing the number of each glyph, a simple task like pressing the down key twice will pop up the glyph screen with a page full of glyphs with their numbers. If the glyph you are looking for is not there, press the right arrow and the next screen will appear.

When the transcriber finds the glyph, left click on it and it will place it in the file being worked on.

Each glyph transcribing project is A ONE TIME THING. Once it is done, it never need be done again.

It may take a while to accomplish ... kind of like writing a computer program... thousands of lines of code, hours of work .. but the end user doesn't have a clue what it took. Once the time is taken to transcribe a hieroglyph, it may be shared by thousands until the internet stops working.

Either by typing in the glyph number or locating the glyph and clicking on it in the help screen, would add that glyph to your hieroglyphic word processor.

This system would

a) Display the glyphs as they appear in the actual source

b) Create an ASCII file, which can cross every hieroglyphic entered into the data base

c) Create a link to an image that the file was transcribed from. (more about this later)

Clicking on the help screen would place the symbol on the visible screen and the number in the ASCII file... hypothetical

å                 Π             W                    symbol
0022         0123         0456            4 digit number

zendz

 

 

Standards-9987

 

Standards-9987

Standard Font Size for Glyphs

Have you ever clicked on a web page and the text color is close to the background color... ugh ! or, have you ever went to a page and the font size is so small you had to strain to see it or adjust your screen?

When people printed on paper, they would often use a very small font size to save on the cost of printing, but in digital text, there is no reason why the image should not be large enough for the average bear to see. If it is too big, it is still OK.

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Glyph standard size = When the largest glyph is enlarged so it can still be clearly seen, that is the standard size for all glyphs. 

Some glyphs are small and a simple design. Other glyphs are larger and have lots of detail.

The formula for creating the standard size for all glyphs would be

a) Find the glyph which

b) When shrunk to the smallest size

c) Could still be clearly seen

Say 1" x 1" .. all glyphs would conform to that size.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEhDD6UtE_50HrFFFyPS0BhlHX80OBaTg9-FYI9M73yzLc2zDBtJTRZvKb77X9bdzT4_QBHv4qFg7CEkmLWvmJ7La4TzfKB1Xrtgv0g3eBAyQctzr3JsQ1JElzeXF_3E1hSex-f28ZE-au0B/s512/glyph-letters.jpg

 

I guess those are two different kind of birds. Before assigning glyph numbers as a standard, there should be an extensive study to find glyphs similar in design to others and those glyphs all be clustered together, so when scholars learned the system, they could see the close glyphs side by side and see the small differences.

In this example you would notice the difference in 101 and 102

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Because "modern" media integrated the type writer..... type, type, type... when moving so far, there would be a carriage return, drop down to the next line. The same thing happens with our word processors "word wrap"

It is pretty hard to chisel small letters in stone. I am guessing lots of hieroglyphic letters are larger than 1 inch.

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No matter how large the font, if needed the complete line could remain on one line. Scrolling with the left/right arrows would display all the glyphs on that line.

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a) Agree on a standard size for all fonts based on the largest / most detailed glyph.

b) Arrange glyphs based on similarities

c) Number the glyphs.

d) Just like the HTM format which can be used by the world freely, make the standard hieroglyphic format free to all .

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All glyphs would be assigned a 4 digit number, so all glyphs smaller than 1000 would be padded on the right with zeros.

This 4 digit numbering system will be essential later...

zendz

 

Standards-9988

  

Standards-9988

Invitation to programmers

Font entry by typing numbers

Interested in creating fonts AND have computer programming skills?

A great application for the creation of fonts... Hieroglyphics

The concept of translation is NOT the replacement of words, but the rendering information from one language to another.

In a translation, those who read/hear it, need no special training to understand the meaning. That is what is going on in Egyptology confusion (not translation)

Put this word in a sentence "aAmw", how many people do you know who would have a clue of it's intended meaning? Unless you have special training, you do not have a clue of the meaning of all that gobbly goop.

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Creating words with the pronunciation of the ancient Egyptians?

Get a grip on it, no one on earth has a clue of what ancient Egyptian words sounded like. The people who make up these sounds and spellings are making up their own words, that do not exist in any modern language on earth.

If they stop wasting their time inventing their own language, they can use a common language, even "educated people" can understand.

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Translation is NOT an exact science. In hieroglyphics, there are many translations of the same text. There is still debate going on about the correct translation of The Rosette Stone.

Before getting to the translation part, let's start with TRANSCRIBING . Here I mean duplicating the glyphs in a hieroglyphic source, to a digital file.

 

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjxMYTM3_oOeBbb5M8t8JNE_yOVpWoZVEmmRrF7qFCzEfOMDna_aX4jqpqmJ5D1k2Q9v3YbZS7NVZ2aN1I63eUERjUXqpLiIAomdJEuVdIYp8VVrPWsGVUNvPlxt_dllfonR5ph5z3P-Uuj/

 

Ancient Egyptian words are created out of a sequence of little pictures, like above, but some times, they are just little geometric symbols.

In our culture we only have 26 symbols to create our language. In hieroglyphics, they say there are over 2,500 glyphs?

I am guessing a fraction of the total are used in most hieroglyphic sources?

The number of glyphs is not important for the programmer who would work on the number to glyph phase.

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I never took any programming classes, but years ago I taught myself basic programming. There is a utility that let's you convert numbers to symbols... visible characters begin with 32

5 FOR R=100 TO 255

6 PRINT R;" ";CHR$(R);" ";

10 NEXT R

Results:

100 d 101 e 102 f 103 g 104 h 105 i 106 j 107 k 108 l 109 m 110 n 111 o 112 p 113 q 114 r 115 s 116 t 117 u 118 v 119 w 120 x 121 y 122 z 123 { 124 | 125 } 126 ~ 127  128 € 129  130 ‚ 131 ƒ 132 „ 133 … 134 † 135 ‡ 136 ˆ 137 ‰ 138 Š 139 ‹ 140 Œ 141  142 Ž 143  144  145 ` 146 ' 147 " 148 " 149 • 150 – 151 — 152 ˜ 153 ™ 154 š 155 › 156 œ 157  158 ž 159 Ÿ 160   161 ¡ 162 ¢ 163 £ 164 ¤ 165 ¥ 166 ¦ 167 § 168 ¨ 169 © 170 ª 171 « 172 ¬ 173 174 ® 175 ¯ 176 ° 177 ± 178 ² 179 ³ 180 ´ 181 µ 182 ¶ 183 · 184 ¸ 185 ¹ 186 º 187 » 188 ¼ 189 ½ 190 ¾ 191 ¿ 192 À 193 Á 194  195 à 196 Ä 197 Å 198 Æ 199 Ç 200 È 201 É 202 Ê 203 Ë 204 Ì 205 Í 206 Î 207 Ï 208 Ð 209 Ñ 210 Ò 211 Ó 212 Ô 213 Õ 214 Ö 215 × 216 Ø 217 Ù 218 Ú 219 Û 220 Ü 221 Ý 222 Þ 223 ß 224 à 225 á 226 â 227 ã 228 ä 229 å 230 æ 231 ç 232 è 233 é 234 ê 235 ë 236 ì 237 í 238 î 239 ï 240 ð 241 ñ 242 ò 243 ó 244 ô 245 õ 246 ö 247 ÷ 248 ø 249 ù 250 ú 251 û 252 ü 253 ý 254 þ 255 ÿ

_  This is the ASCII code.  .. by entering a number, a character is displayed.

 

With similar programming, typing any number could produce any corresponding glyph.

This principal could be expanded to 200 or 10,000 glyphs. You type in the number and the corresponding glyph will be typed in the word processor.

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The abstract words now used to represent a glyph is just confusing. It is as easy to remember 33=an owl, 222=a donkey or 1011 = a crown, as it would be to remember.

Bloop=an owl, hoptie =a donkey or wigwag= a crown. We are oriented with numbers, we do not need to create and learn a language from outer space in order an ancient language.

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The numbers entered needs to be 4 digit numbers. The transcriber need not type all numbers, the data entry program could do that.

Type 1, 12 or 123 and I can create a program that will pad it with leading zeros

1- 0001, 12-0012, 123-0123

Punctuation  or a space following a number is translated into meaning the end of that number, so the program adds the number of zeros to make it a 4 digit number.

All glyphs will have a corresponding 4 digit number. This is essential to create a universal data base.

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Once a standard set of glyph fonts were created and each font was given it's own number, the next step would be the training of transcribers.

A transcriber being one who memorizes (and/or) has a quick reference to the number of a glyph.

Instead of drawing a duck, type in 213.. which becomes 0213

The glyph of the duck appears in the word processor and

0213 goes into the unseen file.

As the transcriber completes the source, the unseen file is filled with a series of 4 digit numbers. Any one with a program that reads that data, can load the simple ASCII data (numbers) and display the same glyphs in their own word processor...

 

To BOOT

ONCE any hieroglyphic source has been entered into the data base, it can be shared by researchers until the cows come home.. AND

Any researcher can search every glyph ever entered into the common data base for any key words or key phrases.

 

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjxMYTM3_oOeBbb5M8t8JNE_yOVpWoZVEmmRrF7qFCzEfOMDna_aX4jqpqmJ5D1k2Q9v3YbZS7NVZ2aN1I63eUERjUXqpLiIAomdJEuVdIYp8VVrPWsGVUNvPlxt_dllfonR5ph5z3P-Uuj/

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How would you spell duck in hieroglyphics.. 213, which would place the glyph of a duck in the word processor display. A lot of time it would be easier to type a number than to draw the glyph.

 

In this system as you typed the numbers the glyphs above would appear in the hieroglyphic word processor.

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Unlike our system with 26 letters, it would take 50 key boards to be able to enter possible glyphs needed.. but if you could type a number and that number place the correct glyph in the word processor, you would be in business.

 

Can you write a computer program that lets you type in a particular font, by typing in a number?

Send me an e-mail if you are into the development of a hieroglyphic entry method. 

 

Here is the group where I am talking to myself about such ideas, hoping some others interested in hieroglyphics will take the ball and run with it http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EncEg_Hieroglyphics

 

scribesofegypt@ymail.com

zendz

 

 

Standards-9989

 

Standards-9989

 

This is a very small section of  The Davies Great Speos Inscription.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg-Z3fuxThMQPxewjjqVUVbthEkV3zuszdjDN2qSlaM4iaIapEheCCqwj8VDKN46A1pGUrITaFFL1WFkc3ibWOQnLOVT8rJ9rdwmW-2hnp6zCsgOq8f9_onlyH02TpHkuHFOLwOxF869K4x/

 

 

If a researcher is working from a sketch of a hieroglyphic that no longer exists, they will have to work for what that artist left behind.

Here I am guessing the digonal lines .. means strike through or "I can't really be sure what this glyph is" ???

While the line numbers are essential, horizontal lines can and should be rendered to vertical lines if possible. It is a problem I never thought of before when creating standards, but even the horizontal lines can be kept in tact with a little additional lines in the program.

What % of hieroglyphic text is written horizontally?

The standard digital code would make research a snap, only if the Egyptology community adopts it.

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This is a hieroglyphic I have been told has a word that translates to "Asiatic" .

If every set of glyphs were given a 4 digit code assigned to it

a)  The transcriber could create that glyph by typing it's number and

b)  As each hieroglyphic source was typed into a data base, that digital code would be placed in that file.

 

Hypothetical a word took 3 glyphs 0157.0027.1002 (periods take the place of spaces)

If the standardized program read these numbers it would create the set of glyphs.

If a search for this word was placed in the standardized program, it could search thousands of hieroglyphic sources that had been entered into the data base and display the same word in it's context.

To understand the meaning Egyptians applied to words, seeing it in the context of different works would give more information as to what a set of hieroglyphics actually meant to the Egyptians.

If a word was thought to translate to the European word Asiatic and in a cross reference it was found the same word was applied to an Egyptian's brother and in another source, it was applied to another Egyptian's camel ... translators would rethink what the word actually meant.

If different translators looked at different sources of hieroglyphics and determined that a set of glyphs held the European meaning, Asiatic, they could cross reference their word with other sources which were believed to have that meaning.

How fast could one research for specific hieroglyphic text? Do a search on Google and see their search program finding a word or a phrase in a couple million web pages in a matter of seconds.

Assigning each glyph a standard 4 digit number is the key to do a super search on every hieroglyphic entered into a common data base.

Creating a standard set of fonts for all glyphs is the key to placing all transcribers on the same page and all future readers of hieroglyphics would have the ability to recognize which glyph they were looking at.

 

More about standard glyphs.. later

 

zendz

 

Standards-9990

 

Standards-9990

 

Photographic/sketch documentation

The first American to get a PhD in Egyptology (1894, from the University of Berlin), James Henry Breasted was the founder of the Oriental Institute in Chicago.

We can guess Breasted would have been at least 24 in 1894. We know that his photographic techniques were instrumental in the development of the method used by the university in documenting historic artifacts.

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEg5J19KfGEMqL716F9OuJAPrT27-yR4KELAxj4uWs7kTHmcIKfm9NKI5suQetm1u-XO6iVyttLS5RVV9Fep0zFZ0YVnYMpiuG42lBPwFGphwMYK733xlAasHGOyL5N-pkQPBFwGfEsQ/s512/JamesHenryBreasted.jpg

( I doubt that any one took a desk inside of the tombs, sat there and sketched the images by candle light.) The important part here is the ability to finally nail down a person who is credited with making a sketch of the hieroglyph... A person who actually saw it or saw a photograph of it. It is this person who established the step of starting with high resolution photos which were taken to buildings, placed on a desk and reconstructed. 

The next step is to compare any photograph of the hieroglyph with the sketch. Photographic documentation is essential to keep the honest, honest and for the mistakes to be corrected.

When I inquired about this particular inscription, I got this reply

The inscription is written on the facade of a rock cut shrine in Middle Egypt known today as the Speos Artemidos, which is near Beni Hasan.

The inscription is almost impossible to see and photograph as it is in shadow most of the time

It is essential to photograph and digitalize all remaining images/hieroglyphics for future generations.

I share a common problem with many others. I like all kind of Egyptology topics and I like to play Mexican Jumping Bean.. going from one to another... but I decided to take just one topic to keep jumping back to .. Hyksos. What ever your topic of choice is, you might trace down the source of any information to see if the source can be documented or if it is but web site parrots, pasting the gossip of other web site parrots.

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A great and worthy work

 

From http://oi.uchicago.edu/research/projects/epi/

 

The Epigraphic Survey based at Chicago House in Luxor, Egypt, is directed by W. Raymond Johnson, PhD, Research Associate (Associate Professor).

  The mission of the Survey since its founding in 1924 has been to produce photographs and precise line drawings of the inscriptions and relief scenes on major temples and tombs at Luxor for publication. .

 THE 'CHICAGO HOUSE METHOD'

Founder James Henry Breasted committed the Epigraphic Survey to the preservation of Egypt's cultural heritage by non-destructive means: through documentation so precise it could stand alone as a replacement in the absence of the original monument. Large-format photography (8x10, 5x7, and 4x5 inch negatives) is an essential tool in this process, and one of the first goals of Chicago House was to create a photographic archive of as many of Egypt's accessible standing monuments as possible, photographed inside and out.

  But Breasted understood that photographs alone cannot capture all the details of the often damaged wall scenes of individual monuments; the light source that illuminates also casts shadows which obscure details. To supplement and clarify the photographic record, precise line drawings are produced at Chicago House which combine the talents of the photographer, artist, and Egyptologist. First the wall surface is carefully photographed, with a large-format camera whose lens is positioned exactly parallel to the wall to eliminate distortion. From these negatives photographic enlargements up to 20x24 inches are produced, printed on a special matt-surface paper with an emulsion coating that can take pencil and ink lines.

An artist takes this enlarged photographic print mounted on a drawing board to the wall itself, and pencils directly onto the photograph all of the carved detail that is visible on the wall surface, adding those details that are not visible or clear on the photograph. Back at the house the penciled lines are carefully inked with a series of weighted line conventions to show the three dimensions of the relief, and damage that interrupts the carved line is rendered with thin, broken lines that imitate the nature of the break.

  When the inking is complete, the entire photograph is immersed in an iodine bath that dissolves away the photographic image, leaving just the ink drawing. The drawing is then blueprinted, the blueprint is cut into sections and each section is mounted on a sheet of stiff white paper. These 'collation sheets' are taken back to the wall where the inked details on the blueprint are thoroughly examined by two Egyptologist epigraphers, one after the other. These epigraphers pencil corrections and refinements on the blueprint itself with explanations and instructions to the artist written in the margins. The collation sheets are then returned to the artist, who in turn takes them back to the wall and carefully checks the epigraphers' corrections, one by one. When everyone is in agreement, the corrections are added to the inked drawing back in the studio, the transferred corrections are checked for accuracy by the epigraphers, and the drawing receives a final review by the field director.

 Consultations between artist, epigraphers, and field director, the consensus of all talents combined, ensures a finished 'facsimile' drawing that is faithful to what is preserved on the wall in every detail; this is the essence of what is generally referred to as the 'Chicago House Method.' The corrected ink drawings, photographs, text translations, commentary, and glossaries are then taken back to Chicago for processing and publication in large folio volumes for distribution worldwide.

CONSERVATION PROGRAMS

    Under Lanny Bell's directorship twenty years ago the Epigraphic Survey added conservation to its program and a conservator to the staff. Now, because of rapidly changing conditions in Egypt that are causing the monuments to decay at an ever faster rate, we have expanded our conservation programs even further. 

CHICAGO HOUSE

The Chicago House photographic archive is a major research collection containing over 18,000 negatives and 20,000 prints ranging in date from the late-nineteenth century to the present. A project to conserve, register, and provide proper archival storage for the collection was recently completed and a catalog of the archival holdings, 'The Registry of the Photographic Archives of the Epigraphic Survey,' was published in 1995. In 1999 the Chicago House Imaging Center was formed to coordinate the scanning of the entire archive onto CD-ROM for inclusion in our Photo

For further information on contributions to the work of the Survey, contact the Development Office at (773) 702-9513 or oi-membership@uchicago.edu

zendz

 

Standards-9991

 

Standards-9991

 

Mythology-Mush

 

"Although neither all the writings of either the Hebrew 'historian'; Josephus, nor that of the Greek 'historian' Manetho can be counted as 'accurate' in all their writings, there are 'kernels' of information they can lead to other bits, in some cases. Neither one should be labeled as absolutely incorrect."

///

Reply

: Before they can be considered any thing, first you must provide evidence that they ever existed.

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There is a book about myths being based on facts...

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Reply

: Many myths are based on facts. There are tons of myths/concoctions based on deceit and lies.

Counterfeit money is based on a factual source.. money.

 

The Hitler diaries, the Jew antique counterfeiting business .. almost all fakes/forgeries/counterfeit artifacts or information is based on something real, but the concoction it's self remains a fake/lie.

 

Most good fakes/forgeries are laced with elements of truth. The Solomon Tablet was based on a known account in the bible, but the stone it's self was nothing but a fake created to deceive the gullible.

 

A document with a hundred truths and five lies, is a false document and a document with myths of the unproven, is based only on the imagination you received your gossip account from.

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TWO SIDES TO EVERY STORY

"We do know, from Egyptology and archaeology, that there were two sides to the story of 'Armageddon' [ie: 'Meggido']...one side by the Egyptians and the other by the Hittites..!

But, if one just reads the Egyptian 'side of the story'...one would believe that they won...yet another account has been found....and now historians and archaeologists believe that it was a draw......

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Reply

: Bingo, when there is actual historic records, written in the time the events took place, EVEN the text of those who were there because the person telling the story may give a false report.

IF you must take the actual text that DOES exist with a grain of salt, why would you waste your time with myths in which there is nothing but the wind of blabbering lips as evidence?

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THE GOSSIP GAME

If you have ever played the gossip game in grade school on a rainy day.

The teacher wrote down a little paragraph. The first kid looked at it and verbally repeated it to the next kid in the row.

When it gets to the last kid and they stand up and repeat what they heard, it is totally perverted

Try it yourself if you have never played the game.

 

School Gossip game

<> Myths about ancient Egypt

In less than 15 minutes

<> It has been 4,000 years
One paragraph <> endless amounts of mythology
Totally perverted by 25 repeats <> repeated by hundreds

This is the essence of myths based on nothing more than the wagging of the tongue.

 

Well, it could be true, you can not prove it is not true..

Well, flying saucers and leprechauns could be true, you can not prove they are not true

 

Knowledge, research, science is not based on ignorance, what can not be proven.

That in which there is no evidence, is not even considered as a concept to ponder.

 

Those who embrace myths or the imagination, you will find reading Harry Potter.

Those who deal with facts, do just that.

 

If you have actual text from ancient times, that writer may have put their own spin on it, but it is worth looking at. We know in our own life time, people who witness the same events often contradict each other.

 

 

If no original text exist from the time the supposed event took place, then it is a myth of an unfounded basis.. Like a fart in the wind, let it pass and deal with factual evidence.

 

zendz

 

 

Standards-9992

 

Standards-9992

Standard Titles / Structured Egyptology writing

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If these photos do not appear, you may need to go to the Yahoo Group where I stored them in the file area:

It may be hard to imagine what I am saying with out the images

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Some info I just read on hieroglyphics:

Hieroglyphs change throughout history.

The most archaic type of glyphs were used in the Predynastic and Early Dynastic eras.

By the Old Kingdom another type of ancient Egyptian language

Demotic was another type of Egyptian language (Rosetta Stone)

There have been mistranslating and transliteration regarding what many [if not all] tomb texts, pyramid texts, and other documents

Modern Egyptologists and linguists now work re-translating many of these texts and documents.

End

=============================

Translation of an unknown language is done by finding patterns or examining the same word in it's context.

There is some knowledge of what ancient Egyptians used to do by things they created by their hands, but to know what actually happened in any event, hinges on the ability to read the hieroglyphs.

I have read the remarks of many about their ability to read hieroglyphs, but even those who claim to read hieroglyphs seldom create their papers/information from hieroglyphs.

The key to creating a translation system is by the establishment of standards such as are used in religious books.

The entries in the bible have specific reference marks.

Book Genesis ... 2 Kings...

Hieroglyphs could be given standard "BOOK NAMES"

=============================

HIEROGLYPHIC TITLES

By the creation of a standard set of fonts for all glyphs.

Assigning each glyph a number

Any one who learned the standard system could create any line of hieroglyphs by typing numbers

If you typed 333, 9, 17, 1034 in a file, the results would be

0333 0009 0017 0134 in the ASCII file, any number typed would become a 4 digit number

Every number when read would produce it's assigned glyph

The first 25 glyphs of a source would create 100 digits (4 digits per glyph)

This number sequence would become the long title of the hieroglyph.

Humans aren't great associating a string of numbers, so the standard organization would assign a standard human friendly name as the alternate name.

The numbers for the computer, the word associating name for humans.

After the standard was created, any alternate name would be considered an error, like misspelling.

Hieroglyphic titles - Rosetta, Khamose, Ahmose01, Ahmose02

.. Genesis, Kings 1, Kings 2

=============================

In order for all researchers to be on the same page, they must have a standard set of references:

Those who transcribed hieroglyphs would use the standard writing system

Most hieroglyphic sources will have "1 page" wall, stela.. but when it had multiple pages like a papyrus..

KingsList

:2:3

Hieroglyphic title:Page:Line

Rosetta:17 would mean the Rosetta Stone, 17th line down from the top

Hieroglyphic title: line down from the top

=============================

Because of the world interest in the bible for centuries, great developments have been made in standards.

Genesis

46:10

A - Top is the text before translation

B - Is the translation reading from right to left (as in the original middle east languages)

C - Is the translation reversed in the sequence we Europeans are accustom to.

NOTE there are more words in the translation than in the original text. This is typical for hieroglyphic translations also.

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/EncEg_Hieroglyphics/files/Translate-example.jpg

Some time in history some one came up with the Strongs' numbering system. Because people did not know the text of Hebrews, they came up with assigning Hebrew words with numbers.

The single word top right assigned the number 1121 and this single word = And the sons of

With a Strongs' dictionary in your software, you can see the actual translation.

Because a standard reference system has been created for the bible, any one can site a reference and any one else in the world can see exactly what they are eluding to.

IF something actually exists in that text, any writer can write their information, giving the source of their information.

=============================

There is no need to quote the whole translation. When an author states specific information exists in a text, they need only give the reference and put it into their own words, such as the following examples

Leviticus 24:10 In the Exodus Israelites were still producing children with Egyptians.

Ezra 9:1 The Israelites never stopped producing their families with the Egyptians.

Genesis 41:45 The Egyptian girl Asenath produced the tribe of Joseph

1 Chronicles 2:34 An Israelite took an Egyptian servant to be the husband of his daughter.

1 Kings 7:8 Solomon built a house for his Egyptian wife.

Genesis 461-34 Israel had 53 grandchildren, only 1 of them was a female. The grandsons of Israel had only Egyptian girls to produce their families. All future generations of Israelites would be descendants of Egyptians.

POINT: IF the information actually exists in any text, then the author can document their source with the reference.

=============================

What good would is it to have the ability to translate hieroglyphics, if that author does NOT use the hieroglyphs in the preparation of their papers?

You can read any supposed information about ancient Egypt, BUT these authors never site their hieroglyphic reference.

* "Salitis was the 1st king of the 15th Dynasty." <> Ok, give the hieroglyphic source and line where Salitis is identified as a king?

 

* "Avaris was the Hyksos capital" <> Ok, give the hieroglyphic source and line where the Egyptians stated Avaris was the Hyksos capital.

 

* Nefertiti was the wife of Amenhotep IV / Akhenaten <> Ok, give the hieroglyphic source and line where Nefertiti was the wife of Akhenatem

 

IF an Egyptologist who actually has factual knowledge that any said information actually does exist in the hieroglyphs, they can

give THE SOURCE AND THE SPECIFIC LINE WHERE THAT INFORMATION EXISTS.

With or with out a standard reference system, any one who actually has knowledge of any information in hieroglyphics, can identify the source and give the specific line that information is written.

Those who can not site the specific source in the hieroglyphics are no different than any novice who parrots what they read in some book or some web page.

I suppose one reason many do not site the actual source and location is because it will not let them get away with embellishing their mythical information.

"An Egyptian was the servant of an Amalekite" ... "Joshua's coat caught on fire" ... any one who wanted to make up any thing is free to do so, but if you are a researcher and not a sheep, you will ask the question, where is that information written?

If I intended to share information with you that actually existed, I would simply add the source... 1 Samuel 30:13.

=============================

I would expect mythology, gossip, fairy tales to be spread on any topic on the internet, but for those who think of themselves as scientist/researchers, they would document every thing they wrote.

Hieroglyphic source, line down

... this information states ...

Some people get angry with me when I ask them for the source of information, when no such source exists. It is what they have been taught and because they have been conditioned to believe it, they continue to believe it EVEN after they know such information does not exist in the hieroglyphics.

I would imagine an international standards organization in which accepted ONLY documented information.

Hieroglyphic Title: the title assigned to any hieroglyphic source.

Page when more than one exists

Line that particular information is given.

I suggest an organization which works on a scientific level, not university graduates who embrace Aladdin's magic lamp and create their own mythology with non existent information.

Hieroglyphic source, line down

this information states ...

By the creation of standardized titles for hieroglyphics, the international organization of Egyptologist could communicate with out confusion .

It does not matter if it is books or the internet, Egyptology information has become a sea of copy and repeated information by people who never look at hieroglyphs or would not know what they were looking at, if they did.

The concept here is potential researchers having the ability to go to the source of hieroglyphs.

1 Each hieroglyphic source to be cataloged would be photographed in high resolution and professional lighting so the researcher can actually see what is on the source.
2 The photograph must have numbers by each line of hieroglyphs.
3 Each source must be given a standard name, so all researchers are on the same page.
4 The photograph and source information would then be published on a world wide standards association of Egyptology researchers.
Rosette 12 Line 12 of the Rosette stone
Hatshepsut:12:27 ... guessing there are lots of Hatshepsut hieroglyphics, this hypothetical source would be labeled Hatshepsut 12, the last digits are always the number of lines from the top.

First photographed and given line numbers
Labeled
Transcribed then
Translated

( Just like medical writers or legal writers, there must be a standardized writing system in Egyptology) IF researchers will ever be able to compare notes. The data base must be structured.

When the internet began, it was too slow and disk space was too expensive. With high speed connections and gigabytes available, this task can be done.

Such an organization will not be done by the novice, but it can begin by spreading the idea to university students who will have the ability to network with others around the world.

=============================

zendz

 

Standards-9993

 

Standards-9993

 STANDARDS FOR EGYPTOLOGY RESEARCH

=============================

How many thousands of researchers will repeat the same research over and over and over.

Wasting their resources to find that which is already found and available.?

In order to sort out endless mis-understandings / confusion:

An International Egyptology Standard

would expedite the needs for all Egyptology researchers to find existing information and to publish their own new information so it can be shared with the world.

=============================

In order for people using different standards to work with other standards, they must use conversion.

In the field of Egyptology there are so many different standards in different phases, it is chaos.

Cubits, Feet, Meters

Celsius, Fahrenheit, Kelvin

Acres, Hectares

The reason why carpenters can go into a house built years ago and find, fix or add new structures is the standards created.

The reason you can go to the store and get plumbing parts to replace your own, is because of parts being made with standard measurements.

When there are optional elements instead of a standard, the flow of information is hampered.

=============================

I would suggest a university in Egypt for the hub of An International Egyptology Standard organization.

Working with other universities around the world, to create an international standard that Egyptologist around the world would base their research on.

=============================

a) Multiple spellings of the same name

b) Different spellings for the same person

c) Different Egyptians with the same names

a) When there are multiple spellings, the standard organization would pick which is the standard

b) When there are different spellings for the same person, the organization would pick the standard.

=============================

car, automobile, motor vehicle

standard, alternate, alternate

=============================

By the creation of an Egyptologist spell checker, any one could use their own word processor and dump their file in the program.

When the word processor encountered an alternate spelling, it would be replaces with the standard.

The man drove his automobile to the next down

would become

The man drove his § car to the next down.

There could be a standard symbol { § what ever} to note the word was replaced with the standard.

=============================

c) When there were more than one Egyptian with the same spelling { Ahmose King/Military man), an alternate name would be assigned as the standard to one of them.

When the spell checker encountered a name that could be two different people, it would pause for the correction

Ahmose the King

Ahmose the military commander.

Just like a regular spell checker you would click on the correct choice.

=============================

PLACES WITH DIFFERENT SPELLINGS OR DIFFERENT NAMES

Not only are the same place given different names or different spellings, but there are also different places with the same names.

The spell checker would perform the same task, replacing alternate spellings with the standard and pausing to allow the author to chose the correct place when two places have the same names.

With this Egyptologist spell checker, it could also add other information to the places.

Information that would take hours in a large text to enter, would be done with the spell checker.

When ever the spell checker encountered the standard or alternate spelling of a place, it would create roll over text giving the global position of that place.

[ Roll over text = text that appears when you place the mouse over a word ]

=============================

STANDARD MAP

Any one who has ever created maps, knows if you try to draw all the detail of lots of places, the text gets so small, it can not be read.

The map I suggest begins with an outline of Egypt with the major locations on it. With pixels representing a particular global position.

When the spell checker created the standard for a place on the map, that place would become a link.

If that link was clicked on, the map would appear with that place in Egypt would appear.

=============================

When future publishers created books ... when professors taught Egyptology, the standard spellings would be taught.

=============================

STANDARD GLYPHS

There are people downloading font software and creating fonts for glyphs daily. By the creation of standard glyphs, made public domain, by all researchers using the same glyph fonts, their hard copies could use finger print technology to be read and the typed text could create a universal ASCII code that could be shared in a common data base.

To get from hieroglyphics to translations, the standard would be created first by transcribing existing hieroglyphics to a computer file.

Once any hieroglyphic had been transcribed, future researchers would not have to view poorly photographed images in an attempt to even figure out which glyphs were on the actual source.

I recently asked about one hieroglyphic source that people are talking about all over the internet. When I finally found some who knew where the source was, they said you could no longer make out the writing.

It appears that most 'Egyptologist' go to tombs or such locations and pick a small area of interest. Before they vanish, it is essential for every remaining hieroglyphic source to be photographed in high definition, or it will be lost forever.

=============================

The Egyptologist standard dictionary I suggest would

* Replace all alternate persons names with the standard

* Give the option of which person it was when more than one person had the same name.

* Replace alternate place names with the standard, give the location of that place in a roll over text.

All of this (and more) could be done after any author finished their work, by simply pasting their text into the dictionary program.

=============================

Below are two working examples. By moving the cursor over the purple/yellow icon, you can see the text.

Hypothetical text entry would be pasted in the dictionary with out the references and come out with the standard words and references.

The Crew Commander Ahmose son of Abana, the justified; he says. I speak to

you, all people.

King Tuts' tomb is in  The Valley of the Kings.

It is the same icon but the bottom displays text and can take you to a map.

 

You should really start here

http://egyptology-standards.blogspot.com/2009/09/standards-9999.html

 

 

zendz

 

 

Standards-9994

 

Standards-9994

Vague speech / letters

SHOW US YOUR PHOTOGRAPHS

Speaking in broad generalities, using information that would require interpretation, using ambiguous speech is the tools of a good flim flam man. By the use of fuzzy words, when cornered the trickster can deny the intent of his words.

Tonight (Sep 12, 2009) they had a segment about the rage of tennis players and reported a great deal of the controversy can no longer be spouted because of the camera system that takes away human judgment. Photography / instant replay in football has also provided the exact way events took place and removed the error of human judgment

Though photography can be faked, it remains a valuable tool in court, because a faked photo would prove the intent forge false evidence. On the stand a witness can blubber around and try to be misleading, but when they present a photo, they are being precise.

It is a common practice for some one to provide photos to prove the amount of damaged property.

Can you imagine some one going into a court room and presenting their sketched interpretation of the damage instead of a photo?

=============================

If it still exists when ever you click on it, on this web page

http://www.maat-ka-ra.de/english/bauwerke/speos_artemidos/speos_artemidos.htm

This page gives information about a sketch made of an image inside of an Egyptian tomb.

"The lion-headed goddess Pakhet-Weret-Hekau with the sun-disk on her head is depicted facing both, extending her left hand to the head of the kneeling queen and blessing her. This scene is shown on (a) the drawing below prepared by L. Chappaz-Pache (Les Dossiers d´Archeologie, 1993). (b) The scene has been reworked during the 19. dynasty (now Sethi I is shown kneeling before and turning to Amun) but the (c) traces allowed the reconstruction of the original picture."

///

(b) the scene has been reworked

(c) but the traces allow the reconstruction of the original picture.

If I am reading this right, it looks like this image has been altered but the tracing allows the original picture to be seen?

=============================

On this web page

http://www.famsi.org/research/zapotec/index.html

With few exceptions, the catalogue uses line drawings instead of photographs. Drawing an object creates a mental map of the artifact in the mind of the illustrator, and in my experience this is the best way to understand its iconography. The urns in this catalogue were drawn from sight in museum collections, or alternatively, copied from photographs. Preference was given to the first method. Every effort was made to produce illustrations that faithfully reproduce the originals, but I must stress that these are merely my interpretations

///

So why look at some one's interpretation instead of the original image?

I heard about a hieroglyph that is referred to over and over, but no photo exists. Why could that be?

=============================

1827 did Frenchman Joseph Nicphore Nipce

 

On 13 April 1841    The Australasian Chronicle announced the arrival of the daguerreotype in New South Wales:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjA8U4uZ68i2oUs6Ce953T-gQEPAUlgi3fsrQISmBfIYNSDruo-qfwj4TVhBfXnwXGs2E0mzdDlNR8g_j2RouBdv_oIb8JcvH9UawbLfgpJ0sBdZvXwG029SSj9ss6nV98awwpuDBFzyMcl/

 

• Abraham Lincoln, 1860
  
• Mathew Brady
  
• Salted-paper print, 3.4"x2.1"
  
• National Portrait Gallery
  
• Image No. NPG.96.179

=============================

Why do we read about all the Egyptologist in the early 1900s sketching the images in the tombs instead of photographing them?

Photography had a good start by 1850. Before 1900 photography was a science. Indoor photographs were created with flash powder.

Matthew Brady did photos of Abraham Lincoln in the 1860s

There are hundreds of Matthew Brady Photos from The Civil War

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=mathew%20brady%20photography&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

... so why did the early Egyptologist neglect to take photos ? If you are sketching things using your own imagination then it can easily be altered to fit your own agenda, I guess?

=============================

I am guessing 99% of all who will ever read this page are not professional Egyptologist.. just the average bear like the rest of us.

I doubt if 10% of you have ever been to Egypt and if you have, you spent two weeks or less on a tour that was all planned out where you would stop and how long you would be in any particular location.

If you studied hieroglyphics for a long time before your trip and actually memorized all the glyphs, on your stop at each location, you may have seen lots of hieroglyphs.

Do you also have a photographic memory?

If you did have all the glyphs memorized and you have a photographic memory of what words were on each hieroglyphic source you saw, then you still only have the knowledge of the hieroglyphs you saw and memorized on your tour.

=============================

Where do the masses (including those who call themselves Egyptologist) get their information about hieroglyphics.

* You get it by reading what some one else wrote about the hieroglyph ... or

* You get your information from seeing photos you (or some one else) took of the hieroglyphs.

I and all the rest of you who can not read hieroglyphs, can do no more than puppet what others write.. and even the others who write Egyptology articles, many of them can not read hieroglyphics.

What I write is based on the assumption that what I read is accurate, then I challenge what does not appear accurate (to me).

Egyptologist vs hieroglyphic reader

Egyptologist.. person who reads a whole bunch of information and if they get lucky, they will find a lost prize.

Hieroglyphic reader ... IF they never entered Egypt or saw a picture of Egypt, they have the potential to unlock lost secrets.

There is no reason why hieroglyphs are not photographed with the possible detail.

Any one who wants to sketch them can do so freely, but the public should see the original work beside any re-creations based on the interpretation/imagination of some one with an agenda.

Hieroglyphic sources should have each line numbered in the photographs, for future researchers to refer to.

=============================

Remember the question "Can you imagine some one going into a court room and presenting their sketched interpretation of the damage instead of a photo? "

IF what they say is actually written in any hieroglyphic

They can produce the photo of the hieroglyphic and they can point out the exact lines that information is written on.

Those who are translating any hieroglyph is working from pictures. If you are not just parroting what some other parrot wrote, produce a copy of your photo.

 

 

zendz

Standards-9995

Standards-9995

 

Egyptology gods... It does not matter what facts they can produce, any thing they say is a fact because of their title.. BS

Archeologist

say ...

Scholar

say...

Dr.

Smarty Pants says...

Professor

Bullwinkel says ...

We never cease to see people write some assertion then throw in some reference as to what some expert said.

Coming from the lips of an "expert" gives the assertion credence

?

Evoking the title of an "expert" is a never ending argument why some thing is a fact

.

=============================

Scholarship: knowledge resulting from study and research in a particular field.

Scholar: a learned person who specializes in a particular field

You or any one who studies a particular field is a scholar. Most people I know of who are called scholars are people who get their knowledge from what some one else wrote or said.

A scholar in effect is little more than one who puppets information they collect from others

.

Because it comes from a "Scholar" neither makes the information true or false.

"Scholars say ... " is a statement the person(s) saying these things, collects information of authors.

=============================

He is a professor of .... She is a Dr. of ....

Lots of people write some thesis and try to give credibility to their assertion by evoking the name and title of some professor/dr.

Adding the names of universities to the research is also a method to fluff up one's claims.

NO Dr. or Professor is the author of 1/100,000th of the information in any university.

Through years, thousands of people collect tid bits of information from sources of interest.

A publisher combines that information into a book on those subjects.

A student attends a university and learns the information/techniques created by others.

If the student hangs out long enough and pays enough money, they can receive a hundred thousand dollars a year, teaching students the information collected by book publishers who got that information from the original authors (most which are dead).

Being a professor or Dr. only means that some one has been exposed to a whole bunch of information of others

.

=============================

French, math, history, chemistry, art ... there are hundreds of available subjects in universities.

To get a degree, one must take a whole bunch of subjects.

Each subject may be divided in courses (segments).

One book in one course may then be divided into other subjects.

No topic of investigation requires a professorship, nor does it require a college degree, nor a high school diploma.

When we argue/reason any point, ONLY THE INFORMATION RELATED TO THE QUESTION AT HAND IS RELATIVE.

If you wanted to be a dairy farmer and learn how to pasteurize milk, French, math, history, chemistry, art .. what some professor or dr. said is a moot point.

Though the professor may have had to learn this information along the line, it is a trivial fraction of his learning.

If you went to a farm that had been in the dairy business, a high school drop out working there could give you the same information as any professor.

The fact that some Dr. / Professor testifies to any thing does not give it any validity

.

=============================

WHAT IS THE QUESTION AT HAND

Archeologist, Scholars, Drs, professors who do not get their information by their own discoveries are nothing but puppets who repeat hearsay information from books.

Any professor who receive hearsay information in books can only repeat the hearsay stories they paid to learn.

If it took a professor 1000 hours to become a professor and 2 minutes of that 1000 hours was to learn how to compute stress...

If the question at hand

was how to compute stress, then 999 hours and 58 minutes of that education is irrelevant to the question at hand.

=============================

Professors are no different than any one else, except for the fact of all the stuff they had to learn to become a professor.

In the year 2009 there is a TV program titled "Are you smarter than a 5th grader"

The object of the game is to answer the same questions taught from grades 1 to 5.

The prize 1 million dollars.

So far there have been dozens of university grads and an astronaut that could not answer the grade school questions.

People who graduate from college only remember a trivial fraction of what they learn.

The fact that one went to college does not mean they are right about any thing. It only means they had to pay out big bucks and rack out their brains to learn things that have been forgotten.

=============================

Here I inquire about the evidence of the existence of Hyksos in ancient Egypt.

I have an array of different questions.

If you reply to any of my questions and vindicate it with what some expert says:

Most of the time the "experts" they attribute information are abstract, unidentified... The experts say.. what expert, where, show me where this expert says this...

Archeologist

say ...

Scholar

say...

Dr.

Smarty Pants says...

Professor

Bullwinkel says ...

#1 Show me a dagger found in Egypt that was made by a Hyksos.

Reply it is a fact because Professor Bullwinkel says ...

Either professor Bullwinkle says it because he is repeating hearsay information he learned in a class given by another professor who repeated their hearsay information ... OR professor Bullwinkel can tell us such information as

* where the dagger is held

* how it was tested

* who tested it

* when it was tested

* who found it

Quoting a Dr. / Professor who just puppets hearsay information gives nothing any credibility.

Quoting "experts" can be useful only when those "experts" supply factual information that can be verified.

If any archeologist/professor says any thing is true with out the facts to validate those claims, they are no different than any one who reads the endless web sites of gossip and repeats their hearsay information as factual information.

The only thing different in any professor/archeologist who publishes the hearsay information of others as fact, then a high school graduate who collects gossip and creates a thesis, is the professors spent thousands of dollars to create their fairy stories.

=============================

If some archeologist/Egyptologist/professor ... says Hyksos introduced new musical instruments to Egypt:

* They say it because they are repeating hearsay they were forced to learn or

* They say it because they have first hand knowledge of such musical instruments.

(Part a) Archeologist/professor say ....

(Part b) OK, now show us the evidence the archeologist/professor provides to verify their claims.

If you respond to my challenges and use some "experts" to make your argument, fine.

Then go to your expert's work and show the factual information they based their claims on.

The amount of years studied or the massive amount of books has no importance in the specific issue at hand, unless it addresses that particular issue. Any novice could have the same answer. Research is done on one piece of information at a time. Instead of waving a degree, simply give an answer to any questions you have the ability to reply to.

 

You should really start here
How to Navigate this Blog

zendz

 

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